Nervous to ask this but....

[flustered1]

Well, I didn't say that you have any rights to have or raise any children. What I said was that they have the right to complain about not having what they dreamt of as a "perfect family". No one is promised or has the right to have healthy, living parents yet, if someone's mother dies you don't hear very many people consoling them with "Well, you have two aunts". Having an only child when your dream was to have a much larger family? You MOURN that ideal family picture, you long for it. Not in the SAME way as a lost loved one, but pretty darned close.

[brandyb]

You are right- you DO have to mourn that picture. Even though adoption wasn't hard for us, I still had to mourn the loss of the brown eyed girl who sang that I thougth I would have.

What I am trying to say(and probably not very well) is that I don't understand people who seem to get stuck in that process. Never mourning it and moving on to build their family another way. It is like that "dream family" is so important that they would rather not have more children than have what they did not dream about.

I never thought that I would build my family this way and i certainly never thought I would adopt from Africa, but I just think it is amazing at how your heart can change when you make a choice to be open to it. My family now is more than I could have ever imagined for myself. I guess it just makes me sad to hear someone wish and hope for more children, to see them mourn everytime something happens and to know that simply because of the fear of the unknown, they choose to stay in that place.

[brandyb]

Amen.

Some agencies(like ours now) do offer a discount to pastors to help offset that cost, but for us, it only makes like $2000 difference....

[zoeyz]

Originally Posted by brandyb

I guess it just makes me sad to hear someone wish and hope for more children, to see them mourn everytime something happens and to know that simply because of the fear of the unknown, they choose to stay in that place.

I think that is really simplifying it, though. Peoples' reasons are often more complex than that.

[maryellen]

Originally Posted by brandyb

I guess it just makes me sad to hear someone wish and hope for more children, to see them mourn everytime something happens and to know that simply because of the fear of the unknown, they choose to stay in that place.

Brandy, I totally relate. I never thought I'd adopt a child from Korea (nevermind two!) but just because that wasn't exactly what I predicted for myself, that doesn't mean it isn't absolutely glorious. I also never imagined I'd end up marrying my DH (who I've known since I was 10 but didn't date until my 20s), that I'd live where I do, that I would do what I do for a living, or any number of surprising things that have happened in my life.

I guess I am a "when one door closes, another opens" kind of person and life has shown me that those doors that open can lead to very wonderful, unexpected places. I would not change a single thing about the way my family came to be. But having said that, it's also true I also never had a doubt that I could love a child that I did not give birth to. That never even occurred to me. I had concerns about adoption, just as I had concerns about some of the fertility treatments that were available to me, but the ability to love a child that I adopted wasn't one of them.

Biological connections are really important to some people, they mean very little to others. That's neither good nor bad, it just is. For those for whom it means a lot, adoption is just not the right choice for them and as I said earlier, it's better for the kids that people listen to their guts when that is the case. No child should have to grow up in a home where his own parents think he is some kind of consolation prize!

[kec]

Originally Posted by maryellen

I want to throw this out there, in case anyone is reading this is not considering adoption primarily because of money issues: There is a $10,000 tax credit for adoption. Not a deduction, a credit. Which means if you spend more than $10,000 on the adoption, you will get $10,000 back. If your income is not high enough for you to have paid that much money in taxes in one year, you can spread it out over several years, but you WILL get $10,000 back. We've adopted twice, and got the credit twice (over a couple years we got the full amount back). Just in case that helps someone...

We did too. And as far as agencies not allowing you to adopt if you work, it is definitely not true. Our agency knew that I worked full time and would be going back to work just a few weeks after the adoption. As far as the perfect family, we absolutely have it. I wouldn't change a thing - 3 failed IVFs before bringing Karli home and then a surprise pg in the middle of our 2nd adoption.
I have actually had a friend say that they could never love an adopted child as much as a bio one - in my case, I bonded much quicker to my adopted child who came home at 4 months old than my bio dd. I would say that I love them equally as much. I could go on and on but as a child, I always said that I would adopt at 35 if I didn't have a baby. It was a few more years but it was so worth it!
I know that it isn't for everyone but it was definitely for us!
Kari

[flustered1]

Originally Posted by brandyb

You are right- you DO have to mourn that picture. Even though adoption wasn't hard for us, I still had to mourn the loss of the brown eyed girl who sang that I thougth I would have.

What I am trying to say(and probably not very well) is that I don't understand people who seem to get stuck in that process. Never mourning it and moving on to build their family another way. It is like that "dream family" is so important that they would rather not have more children than have what they did not dream about.

I never thought that I would build my family this way and i certainly never thought I would adopt from Africa, but I just think it is amazing at how your heart can change when you make a choice to be open to it. My family now is more than I could have ever imagined for myself. I guess it just makes me sad to hear someone wish and hope for more children, to see them mourn everytime something happens and to know that simply because of the fear of the unknown, they choose to stay in that place.

So, you went with international adoption? Can I safely assume that your children were not newborns when they came into your family? THAT is one of my major problems. I want a completely CLOSED adoption (which is why some people do international adoptioin) BUT I want a child from birth as well (which is more likely here in the states/locally). I like my cake and eating it too, I suppose?

[brandyb]

I did/am doing both.

Ds came from frozen embryo adoption- semi open

Dd came from a domestic newborn agency adoption- closed(by the birthparent's choice)

Next child will be a toddler from Ethiopia

[SandyLM]

Originally Posted by brandyb

Unless you are self employed.) :

Dh is considered self employed(most pastors are considered this) and so the credit only applies to income tax and not self employment tax. That was NOT a fun surprise when we adopted dd and it came to file taxes.

It helps SOME, but very little for us....

Well, just to be clear - it's not a self-employment issue. It's a federal tax credit and you have to pay federal taxes in order to get the credit. (In theory, it's returning YOUR money to YOU.) If your federal tax liability is less than $10,000, you could be eligible for a smaller amount of the credit; if you pay no federal taxes, though, (not sure how that is possible, but could be, I suppose!) then you would not be eligible.

And to add, the credit is per child - we adopted siblings at the same time and got a double credit --- I think our income tax return check was about $23,000. That was very welcome!

[brandyb]

Yeah, I don't quite understand how it all works- I know that we don't pay alot of federal taxes because of the self employment issue, but we pay alot more self employment tax. Something about how some of it is put in a housing allowance.

We had the option of claiming to be against social security for "religious" reasons and then we would not be taxes, but since we are not against that, we would not claim it, but I do know pastors who do- some of who really do believe it, and some who just don't want it taken out of their check.

I am working more this year, so I am hoping that it will help us more this adoption....