sex ed, reproductive health care, abortion

While her stand is abortion is not acceptable even in cases of rape and incest, I have heard others say that makes sense because that is her belief -- life starts at conception.

However, life is life - right? If you take that belief and apply it to other issues - then why the death penalty. Even inmates on death row are still alive - and some of them have even been found innocent with DNA evidence.

If McCain wins, he will probably be appointing at least two Supreme court justices -- Ginsberg and Stevens are not going to last much longer on the court -- if those two are replaced with justices that are to the right -- (a given). You can all say goodbye to Roe V Wade -- it is history and women are going to be pushed back into the dark ages with back alley abortions et. al.

The only problem with that scenario is that it doesn't transfer outside the womb. What about the death penalty. Republicans are usually pro dealth penalty and anti-choice -- if you (and I don't really mean you but understood you) really believe life begins at conception, then why is the death penalty acceptable. Many people have been found innocent of crimes with DNA evidence -- some innocent have been "murdered" by the state. If life begins at conception - good, bad, ugly or indifferent - it's still life.

[freddy]

Originally Posted by MyRocky

The only problem with that scenario is that it doesn't transfer outside the womb. What about the death penalty. Republicans are usually pro dealth penalty and anti-choice -- if you (and I don't really mean you but understood you) really believe life begins at conception, then why is the death penalty acceptable. Many people have been found innocent of crimes with DNA evidence -- some innocent have been "murdered" by the state. If life begins at conception - good, bad, ugly or indifferent - it's still life.

Those people believe innocence is the key factor and if you are guilty of certain things then you forfeit your right to live. There are plenty of people who value life in all its forms. What one believes about a criminal is not relevant in determining whether a pre-born baby has any right to live. Unless you argue that conscripting another person's body without their consent is a crime.

[SueW]

Originally Posted by Gangrel

Not to contradict you, but I know at least one father reads and posts on this board....me.

Sorry - I stand corrected. And I envisioned you with long blonde hair wearing a skirt - I guess that could still be true!

[SueW]

Originally Posted by MyRocky

While her stand is abortion is not acceptable even in cases of rape and incest, I have heard others say that makes sense because that is her belief -- life starts at conception.

However, life is life - right? If you take that belief and apply it to other issues - then why the death penalty. Even inmates on death row are still alive - and some of them have even been found innocent with DNA evidence.

If McCain wins, he will probably be appointing at least two Supreme court justices -- Ginsberg and Stevens are not going to last much longer on the court -- if those two are replaced with justices that are to the right -- (a given). You can all say goodbye to Roe V Wade -- it is history and women are going to be pushed back into the dark ages with back alley abortions et. al.

Heck - I believe that life begins at conception - and I've got photos of my 3d embryos who became my DS and DD#2 to prove it. I don't believe that your belief in the definition of when life begins seriously influences your stance on abortion - at least it does not for me. I know that abortion ends life. I'm still pro choice (though I have great difficulty in accepting late-term abortion). I know all of our experiences in IF have influenced our views, at least my 6 miscarriages and two ectopics have - but in those cases, life was also ended albiet "naturally."

[dulaney]

Originally Posted by freddy

Its okay for the mom to kill it if that's what the mom wants to do because its her choice. Its hard for me comprehend that stance.

I am sure that it is hard for someone that is pro-life to understand how anyone can be pro-choice, so I will share my thoughts.

And yes, the thought that Roe vs. Wade could be overturned scares the crap out of me.

Personally, I would never have an abortion- regardless of the circumstances (baby has something wrong with it, I get pg from having an affair, etc.)- so I am pro-life for myself. However, I just don't feel that I have the right to tell anyone else what they should do with their body/pregnancy. And, I will use a strange example (not the young teen getting pg). Let's say you have a 33-year old, married woman who is a SAHM with a dh that works and they already have 2 children and they believe their family is complete. She ends up pg and really does not want to have a third child. Well, I feel like that is not my business- I will not be the one that is there helping her raise that child, I will not be the one giving her money to help pay her bills, I will not be the one there helping her drive her kids around to all their activities, I will not be doing anything to help her- so how can I tell her what to do?

And, as a pro-choice person, I may think differently than most other pro-choice people out there, but I do believe that it is a baby at conception. So, I realize that having an abortion is killing a baby- I just don't feel that it is my right to tell anyone else what they should do.

I wish there was more education for people that don't want a pg. I wish they were given counseling to discuss what other options would mean- how would it be to keep the baby, how would it be to place the baby for adoption, etc. I wish that no one had abortions, but I stand by my opinion that it is really not for me to decide (other than for myself). A lot of pro-life people think that pro-choicers are "all for" abortions and I don't think that's true. It comes down to the right to decide for oneself.


Kristin

[freddy]

Originally Posted by dulaney

And yes, the thought that Roe vs. Wade could be overturned scares the crap out of me.

Let's say you have a 33-year old, married woman who is a SAHM with a dh that works and they already have 2 children and they believe their family is complete.


Kristin

People rarely ever mention the family. Here's a picture of one. Only she was the mother of 4, and it was long before the advent of things like WIC or food stamps.

The second boy from the right is my grandpa. They were on the way home from burying his mom. She didn't feel like they could handle a 5th child.

Its odd how my heart still aches for those boys.

[SueW]

Originally Posted by freddy

People rarely ever mention the family. Here's a picture of one. Only she was the mother of 4, and it was long before the advent of things like WIC or food stamps.

The second boy from the right is my grandpa. They were on the way home from burying his mom. She didn't feel like they could handle a 5th child.

Its odd how my heart still aches for those boys.

Was it a failed abortion or suicide? That picture makes my heart ache. Sue

[dulaney]

Originally Posted by freddy

People rarely ever mention the family. Here's a picture of one. Only she was the mother of 4, and it was long before the advent of things like WIC or food stamps.

The second boy from the right is my grandpa. They were on the way home from burying his mom. She didn't feel like they could handle a 5th child.

Its odd how my heart still aches for those boys.

Your grandpa's mom took her life (committed suicide??) because she didn't think she could handle a fifth child? Am I understanding that correctly? If so, don't you think that it is terrible that she felt that was her only choice- to end her own life?

And, my statement about Roe vs Wade being overturned scaring me is because women will still find a way to have an abortion if they want to and we will be right back to years ago, where it happened in dirty places with coat hangers.

Kristin

[freddy]

Originally Posted by dulaney

Your grandpa's mom took her life (committed suicide??) because she didn't think she could handle a fifth child? Am I understanding that correctly? If so, don't you think that it is terrible that she felt that was her only choice- to end her own life?

And, my statement about Roe vs Wade being overturned scaring me is because women will still find a way to have an abortion if they want to and we will be right back to years ago, where it happened in dirty places with coat hangers.

Kristin

No, she had an illegal abortion and it killed her.

Abortion should never have to happen. And what these boys (not to mention their mom and dad, and others like them) went through should never have to happen either. So what are we to do?