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Thread: Temper tantrums and ADHD/ODD connection?

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    AlisonF's Avatar
    AlisonF is offline INCIIDer - A Community Creator
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    Default Temper tantrums and ADHD/ODD connection?

    I am seriously just about to lose my mind with DD who is 6.5 years old and recently diagnosed with ADHD. A few years ago she was also diagnosed with Oppositional Defiant Disorder as well. The ADHD meds help somewhat with that but the temper tantrums and the open defiance/disrespect are making me NUTS.

    For example, last night we were in our hot tub with our neighbors. Time came to get out and come inside. Hayley didnt want to come in without "her" towel and wanted us to get it. We told her to come inside anyway. I had to almost physically drag her inside and then she still wouldnt get undressed and was demanding that I get her a towel. She started screaming, I got madder and madder and then ensuing temper tantrum ensued.

    It is this kind of thing at least once or twice a day. Most of the time it begins with us asking her to do something and her not wanting to do it and then her either screaming at us or telling us I DONT CARE or I HATE YOU or something else disrespectful.

    How do you approach this kind of situation with your kids? We have been using the naughty chair routine to make her sit in a time out situation when she doesnt listen or if she is talking back to us. And I do give her a warning and then she has to sit there. I am just SO tired of the tantrums and the backtalking and screaming at us. I KNOW I should be the bigger person and not scream back but I have such a bad temper and she knows how to push my buttons so well.

    I have read all the books that people have recommended over the years and nothing really seems to help. My parents and sister and her kids are coming to visit today and will be here all weekend and that is always trying.

    THanks for any advice you can give me!

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    Val. is offline INCIIDer - A Community Creator
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    Alison,
    Tanner doesn't tantrum too much, but he is oppositional and defiant just like Hayley. They do not think he has ODD, but rather that it is a part of the SID and ADHD. Anyway, regardless of why, it is absolutely SO annoying. We have to battle with him over everything. When he was about 2 or 3 we started using 1-2-3 Magic with him. He's so accustomed to it now that TYPICALLY this works...the counting to 3 and an immediate consequence if he doesn't respond appropriately. And often he will respond before we get to three. Sometimes, like at least once a day, this does not work and he ends up in time out throwing a fit. Or slamming doors. Still, it works pretty well for us because it's consistent, takes our emotions out of it (which is a BIGGIE for DH since controlling his own emotions is where he's struggling), and he knows exactly what to expect. If you haven't used it before, you might rent the video or read the book and try it.

    We also use sticker charts for good behavior, whereby he'll earn a reward when he earns of stickers for being caught being good....or whatever.

    Managing Tanner's behavior at home and school is an on-going struggle. But, like I said, that 1-2-3 Magic seems to work best of all when we are both consistent in using it with him. Now that Tanner spends time with his Dad at his apt. and here with me, we are also trying to be sure to be consistent between households.

    Hang in there...I'm right there with you.
    Val

    PS-How is your DH doing??

  3. #3
    Love2bmom Guest

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    Alison, I feel your pain! My son has been a nightmare lately with his behavior (the past month, particularly), but I'll stick to talking about my DD, since she is closer to your girl's age.

    My DD has tantrums still, too. Last night, my DH gave her a time out in her room because lately she is either disrespectful or completely ignores him (and does this to me, also). My DH and I are tired of the kids' behavior lately...but I digress!

    So he physically picked up our 5-yr old DD and put her in her room for a five-minute time out. She screamed bloody murder the entire time, and called "Momma...Momma...Momma....I want Momma" the entire time. I was seeing red because I had already dealt with my son's tantrum in a sub shop earlier and also listened to both of their fighting throughout the day.

    I completely ignored her as she yelled to me, TRYING to just keep my cool. Finally, I screamed back as loud as I could "STOP IT NOW!!!!!!!!". I'm sure the entire block heard me, as the windows were open. I sounded horrible. But sometimes my DD pushes and pushes and screams and screams and she is SO LOUD.

    SO, while I feel your pain and I relate to the stubborn behavior (my DD will stand there like a donkey and NOT MOVE at all when I say "come here, honey, it's late and I HAVE to do your hair". She'll put on a big pout, cross her arms, get that angry look in her eyes, and just stand there. Sometimes I say "Fine, leave the house looking a mess..." and I proceed to the stairs, whereby she will begin her screaming fit (because truly, she does not want to look a "mess" at this point, plus she's angry that I stopped being angry and blew it off and disengaged from her anger and defiance.)

    I don't know what the answers are, but with my girl, these things are not all that frequent these days (either that, or I'm immune to letting them bother me as much). These days, it's my son I want to throddle.

    HUGS Alison.

    I hope you get answers and when you do - please share them with me!

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    Is 'The Explosive Child' by Ross Greene included in all of the books you have read? It has been a while since I read it but it comes down to picking your battles and they should generally be about safety issues. If your DD is going thru a period where she is more prone to tantrum then I would try to smooth her path a bit and in a situation at the end of the day decide if something is worth the full on tantrum. I don't know how quickly she gets to that point, but we use consequences which are usually the loss of prviledges like TV, computer, activity or anything else fun. If we make that threat 'I say do you need to lose your xxx privledges?' before anyone crosses the rational line then we can usually reign them in. On another post someone talked about finding your child's 'currency' which I think is about the same thing. Time outs don't really work that well here and it doesn't sound like it is working for you. I'd work on finding other consequences. These kids also tend to have a lot of trouble with transitions so I'm sure you are giving notice of changes or the impending end to fun - H we have 10 more minutes in the hot tub, then 5 more, etc.

    good luck, hope your visit goes well

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    Suzi is offline INCIIDer - A Community Creator
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    Default Completely agree....

    Quote Originally Posted by readyalready
    Is 'The Explosive Child' by Ross Greene included in all of the books you have read? It has been a while since I read it but it comes down to picking your battles and they should generally be about safety issues. If your DD is going thru a period where she is more prone to tantrum then I would try to smooth her path a bit and in a situation at the end of the day decide if something is worth the full on tantrum. I don't know how quickly she gets to that point, but we use consequences which are usually the loss of prviledges like TV, computer, activity or anything else fun. If we make that threat 'I say do you need to lose your xxx privledges?' before anyone crosses the rational line then we can usually reign them in. On another post someone talked about finding your child's 'currency' which I think is about the same thing. Time outs don't really work that well here and it doesn't sound like it is working for you. I'd work on finding other consequences. These kids also tend to have a lot of trouble with transitions so I'm sure you are giving notice of changes or the impending end to fun - H we have 10 more minutes in the hot tub, then 5 more, etc.

    good luck, hope your visit goes well

    What I've learned is to let most things go. If she wants to go to school with mismatched socks or her hair not brushed, etc., then that is HER issue, not mine. I've also found that positive discipline works so much better for my dd than negative. Negative just makes thing so much worse for my dd. I'm sure you've read ad naseum my ticket reward system. I think such a system is worth the hassle. It really removes the power stuggle which is what 99% of our tantrums are. It places full responsibility on them. It releases you from the hassle of all the trivial stuff. If you can swing it (i know how much you have going on right now) I'd highly recommend seeing a behavior therapist. It was totally worth every penny. Ours never met with dd, but with us and taught us how to handle all of these issues.

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    zoeyz is offline INCIIDer - A Community Creator
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    I'm sorry you guys are having a tough time. I was wondering, because of the example you gave, if she might have difficulty with changes in routine and/or sudden transitions. In your example, was she was expecting a towel b/c she always has a towel when she gets out of the water? My son has a hard time with sudden/unexpected orders from us. He doesn't tantrum (well mostly not, lol!) but he doesn't snap to to do it either, which turns into a yelling match anyway. That's the sudden transition component. Change in routine is slightly different for us. For example, he would be thrilled if his cousins came and stayed at our house (they do every year) but in spite of him being happy, his behavior turns bad after a couple of days because he doesn't deal well with the change in routine. I've noticed it usually takes 2 days or so before I see the repercussions of the change in routine. It was always like that when we travelled too. What a good traveller he is, we thought... and then after a few days there would be trouble. Well I guess I'm not any help, unless misery loves company I know what you're talking about though, I go there quite often too.

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    AlisonF's Avatar
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    Default Hey guys, sorry I posted this and then never checked back

    LOL sorry. I forget to check this board for some reason. I guess I didnt totally explain myself as well as I should. The hottub incident is just one example. Hayley is just so incredibly stubborn and just gets so disrepectful that I just cant let her get away with. I do think the time outs work but we just have to stick with it. She hates them but it does help her to calm down.DH has always been more lax about doing them and you can tell that she listens more to me than she does me because she knows I will make her do it. SHe just gets SO incredibly mad about things and just goes off on a mad streak about the silliest things.

    I do need to do more of the positive discipline as well too but she always wants to turn her earned chips into buying another silly toy at the store. Do you guys that use the chip/ticket system use it for them to earn priveledges like TV or a movie out or that or what?

    Also my sister brought up an idea of a reverse chip system where the child will get 5 for the day and they lose them for wrong behavior and they have to have one to watch TV at night so if they want to do that, they have to keep at least 1 ticket etc. Anyone tried that? I thought that was an interesting concept.

    I will have to pull out my 1-2-3 Magic book again and the Explosive Child. I have quite the extensive book collection for behavior LOL.

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    Suzi is offline INCIIDer - A Community Creator
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    Our behavior therapist said nothing should be free when doing the ticket/reward system. Ours had to pay for tv and computer time, trip to movie, sleepovers, etc. The one thing we didn't make her pay for were play dates because she really needed the social interaction. Ours could also earn 5 cents per ticket (not many left over after saving up for everything else!) to spend on junk.

    I don't really like the reverse because again, I think that sets up a power struggle, it is negative instead of positive. Our behavior therapist said once a ticket is earned, then you should not take it away. Take away the right to earn a privilege with it, but don't take the ticket away.

    GL!! I is hard. I try not to get pulled into the tantrum. There is not much I can do w/ my dd when she is like that. Better to deal with it afterward. I walk away and ignore or send immediately to her room.

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    Hey Suzi, how do you manage to keep up with it all then? I just get tired of doing the chip system eventually I guess or just plain lazy LOL. And we didnt really do the part where she would have to use them for TV etc. Seems like SO much work ack! Do you do it all the time or did you taper off it? The books and info he gave us said to eventually stop doing it if you could.

    Good point on the reverse thing because I did learn right at the beginning to not take the chips away from her. Or if I did, I would do it a later time after she had calmed down and then she was much better about it.

    Thanks so much for all your help as usual!

    Alison

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    angeleena is offline INCIIDer - A Community Creator
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    Default heh, wish i had some advice...

    i am right there with you....my 3 yo is rude to us and hits us when she does not get her way....
    it is really torture because she wants the opposite of what we want most of the time. Sometimes we remember to ask for the opposite of what we want, so she will do what we want her to.

    we do time outs. they do not seem to work.
    we have done 123 magic for a year now, and she used to respond, but now she does not care.

    she has to be Opp defiant or is this just part of 3?

    Sometimes it works to figure out what she is really into (the currency part i guess) and ask if she needs to lose it. She seems to respond better to that than time outs.

    Anyway, i wish i could be of help. I am sorry that you too are going through this.
    I am sending you hugs!

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