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Thread: Mosque at ground zero?

  1. #1
    jvirginia is offline INCIIDer - A Community Creator
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    Default Mosque at ground zero?

    A. It is not a mosque
    B. It is not at ground zero
    C. It is not a big deal unless you are seeking to stoke racial and religious tensions because you don't have any real agenda to talk about.

    The great "Ground Zero mosque" hoax

    Anyone paying attention the last couple of weeks has heard multiple reports about plans to build a mosque at Ground Zero. It's been labeled a "victory mosque", described as towering over the memorial to the victims of 9/11, and as being the pet project of a terrorist-sympathizing, Muslim imam. All of this would be cause for Americans to get upset, and no surprise, polls show we are.

    But what if what we're being told are gross distortions mixed with bold faced lies?

    Three simple fact checks help put the flap in context:

    1) There is no "Ground Zero" mosque

    If you take a minute to Google map the address of the supposed "ground zero" mosque, 45-47 Park Place, you'll find the proposed site is on a small city street buried in the middle of the block. It is separated by two full city blocks of towering buildings from the World Trade Center site. While the entire lower Manhattan might be considered "Ground Zero", the site of the mosque is separated visually and physically from the World Trade Center site. No one visiting the World Trade Center site will see it - unless they take a wrong turn on the way.

    2) There is no "Victory" Mosque

    The stated goal behind building the Muslim center in lower Manhattan is to recapture the spirit of mutual respect between Judaism, Christianity and Islam that existed in Cordoba, Spain, from 700 - 1200 AD. While Europe was trapped in the Dark Ages, marked by bloody religious repression, Cordoba thrived as a commercial and cultural center with what was, for the time, a high level of religious freedom. For example, in the 10th Century, Cordoba became the intellectual capital for Jews worldwide. The stated point of the project is creating a world where Jews, Christians and Muslims connect again in a way that builds mutual understanding and respect. This is precisely the opposite goal of the 9/11 terrorists.

    3) There is no Terror-Loving Imam Behind the Mosque

    The Imam behind the mosque, Feisal Abdul Rauf, is reported to have good relations with the Jewish community and has strongly condemned terrorism. He is precisely the kind of Imam that violent Islamic radicals despise the most. He has been lambasted in some quarters in the US for stating that American support of corrupt and coercive regimes in the Middle-east motivated the 9/11 terrorists. While the precise motivation of the terrorists may be subject for debate, his analysis can only dismissed blithely by those unfamiliar with the deplorable practices of American "allies" in Middle-east ranging from the Saudi regime to Egyptian government. But this misses the point; we don't have to agree with his analysis or the way he expressed himself to agree that in a free society, unless someone is engaged in criminal activity, they have the same rights as anyone else to build and operate a house of worship.


    http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/o...sque_hoax.html

  2. #2
    jenm is offline INCIIDer - A Community Creator
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    Default

    This issue is driving me nuts. The three facts you stated are being ignored by many, many people who appear to have strong feelings about this. It is impossible to have a reasonable discussion about it because people do not want to discuss the facts or even to accept the facts and go from there.

  3. #3
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    Default I'm confused

    I understand that it's not a "victory" mosque - whatever that is. But it is still a mosque, correct? It's not a place where Jews or Christians can go to worship? If it "is not a mosque," then what is it?

    I think it should remain a local issue for NYers to figure out. Having politicians weighing in on it from Obama on down strikes me as particularly unhelpful.

  4. #4
    jvirginia is offline INCIIDer - A Community Creator
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    1) It is primarily a community center, just as our town has a Jewish Community Center. The 92nd Street Y is also a community center in NYC, it is the Hebrew community center but it has programs and camps and cultural events and is open to all. It isn't the "Jewish Synagogue".

    2) In terms of politicians weighing in, it started (of course) on conservative radio shows and blogs, then some conservative politicians started to weigh in, and then there was all of this talk about Obama's "silence" until he made his point very clearly.

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    So no worship will be taking place?

  6. #6
    zody is offline INCIIDer - A Community Creator
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    Default I could be wrong

    but I read somewhere that this property was purchased with the intent of building this facility long before 9/11.

    I don't see why all Muslims should carry the burden of those obviously extreme terrorists. If so then Catholics need to be responsible for the child abuse scandal, Tim McVeigh should paint our image of God fearing Christians, and so on... the list gets rather long pretty fast.

  7. #7
    jvirginia is offline INCIIDer - A Community Creator
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    Worship takes place in designated rooms in hospitals, churches, even airports ... as well as community centers (private ones, like this one). That is different from it being a mosque, or a synagogue, or a church. I bet your hospital has a chapel area - does that make it a cathedral? The point is that this place is touted as a "victory mosque" which is a complete and intentional deception.

    The fact is, the more hostile people are to non-radical Muslims, the more incentives people have to radicalize. There are 1 billion Muslims in the world, from Indonesia to Somalia, and since we aren't going to kill or convert them all, I think it is probably best to figure out a way to live together, at least that majority who don't seek to kill or convert us.

    This is America. The thing that makes us great is that people have the right to worship as they please. That isn't a new concept, that is a founding principle of this nation. Suddenly, people have a right to worship as they please, as long as they worship in certain places, or only practice certain religions? Suddenly we are throwing out our fundamental values, what makes us a great country, in the name of our country.

    This was a neighborhood zoning dispute until the right wing bloggers got ahold of it.

    ETA: This is the kind of BS the right wing are saying right now about it. IDIOTIC.

    "Obama came out for the Islamic supremacist mosque at the hallowed ground of 911 attack. He has, in effect, sided with the Islamic jihadists and told the ummah (at an Iftar dinner on the third night of Ramadan, of course) that he believes in and supports a triumphal mosque on the cherished site of Islamic conquest.

    If you had any doubt who Obama stood with on 911, there can be no doubt in our minds now.


    http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/

  8. #8
    Reese14 is offline INCIIDer - A Community Creator
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    Default No time to post now

    I don't have time to post my views on this and quite frankly don't have all of the details anyway to have a strong opinion, however this comment is absurd...

    "If you had any doubt who Obama stood with on 911, there can be no doubt in our minds now."

    I am not a fan of Obama, but I know without a shadow of a doubt that there is no way in he-double-toothpick that he sided/stood with the terrorists on 911. Unless he is a terrorist (is that the point of the comment?) which is actually laughable. Just because he may not choose to go head to head with them doesn't make him a terrorist. Weak, maybe, but not a terrorist. There was no human being in America on that day that sided with the terrorists, except the terrorists themselves.

  9. #9
    twinks is offline INCIIDer - A Community Creator
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    Default they have the right

    Of course they have the right to build a mosque anywhere they would like. This isn't remotely about freedom to practice a religion. That's just the side show attempt to distract from the real issue. It's about respecting what happened on 9-11.

    Frankly, I find it very hard to believe that anyone interested in this "project" has any interest at all in in "creating a world where Jews, Christians and Muslims connect again in a way that builds mutual understanding and respect." There is clearly no interest in building mutual understanding and respect when those pushing this project completely disregard the main objection, which is the location.

  10. #10
    freddy is offline INCIIDer - A Community Creator
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    Maybe I'm naive, but I'm not afraid of muslims, I don't dislike muslims, I don't blame muslims for what happened on 9/11.

    I dislike terrorists, and I blame terrorists for what happened that day.

    I don't equate the two.

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