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Thread: Meeting today regarding request for IEP

  1. #1
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    Default Meeting today regarding request for IEP

    I wrote last week about my concerns for 4th grade daughter with ADD. She had received a progress report that was bad and I was very concerned. She is on Vyvanse 20 mg and has been for 1 1/2 years,

    Well to briefly summarize meeting . I was told progress report has done exactly what it is intended to so. Daughter has improved and making much more effort since we received it .Concern is her grades are all over the place. Same subjects she has scores A then U then B then A then U etc....The physcologist said this is typically what they see with a child with ADD and they felt I should talk to the Dr the dosage might need to be adjusted as with proper medication and focus they wouldn't see the grades all over the place like that.
    She does test at grade level and told that school needs to have her at grade level or offer services but that for instance if she had an IQ of 130 and could and should with that IQ be getting A's that there would be no services they could offer her as long as she was at grade level. Kind of confuses me though because seems like I've read on here other Mom's writing that their kids were doing o.k in school but they were still wanting and getting services for academics.
    We also talked about a 504 plan but I was told more important to have it implemented in 5th at some point because we might want to have it in place by middle school.They felt they could give her what a 504 plan would without her having one and I do trust them. No reason not to at this point and will monitor situation closely. Some of the things will be that she will definately stay in front of classroom 2nd row at worst. She will also be sent out to maybe run an errand for teacher or to get water before a test so she can unwind a little. She will be sent to read to 5 and 6 year olds to help with her self esteem and her need to be in charge .
    The Principal and her teacher both said with her personality she will be very sucessful in the working world but agree that it is something that can and does cause problems at this age for her socially. She comes across very strong .I feel a little guilty about this because I am also a very strong personality and she see me in action all the time. Am I modeling things that are bad for her? Neither of my daughters are followers and very strong and I wonder if it's modeled behavior or just their nature. I'm a single Mom without a lot of support around me and have to be strong all the time.

    Sadly I mentioned that to DD and just about broke my heart when she said but kids don't like me. Not exactly true but it does seem the ones she wants to like her don't and are not always the nicest but she finds fault in many kids I suggest she play with that might be nicer. She is very judgemental and I am working on that with her. Special Ed teacher suggested the lunch bunch they have once a week but DD has already said no way because of some of the kids in there and their problems. Ironically she is very compassionate and last year was very kind as teacher told me to a classmate who was special ed and retarded.She was only classmate invited to his party. Already in 4th I see her wanting to be with the "popular" cool kids and I don't like that.

    The Principal will have her do a program but without other kids knowing it about social issues .It is a computer program that sounded very interesting.

    Principal will sit in on parent conference next month to see where she is at. She does have a very experienced teacher who seem to be very well thought of for her teaching abilities by the Principal. I also asked about distractions during test and was assured the class is very quite and my daughter has never complained.

    So that's about it. So all the school can tell me is she will be taught to grade level but if I want her to excel their is not much they can do there.`

    Would love input from others that have traveled this road.

  2. #2
    zoeyz is offline INCIIDer - A Community Creator
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    Quote Originally Posted by susan in ca View Post
    We also talked about a 504 plan but I was told more important to have it implemented in 5th at some point because we might want to have it in place by middle school.They felt they could give her what a 504 plan would without her having one and I do trust them. No reason not to at this point and will monitor situation closely.
    This stood out to me. They're not going to want to give you anything formally, most schools are like that. It sounds to me like they put you off because they want to take care of things without it right now. That is best for them. If they don't, what's your recourse? Maybe you can then start the process to get a 504, but that takes time, as you can already see. Fwiw, I would never trust the school to do the best thing for my child. They have too many conflicting priorities to make your child their priority. Some teachers do better than others, maybe you have a good one this year, I don't know, but when this year is over, you'll have to start this all again next year. Even with a 504 or an IEP, you have to start over somewhat with a new school year, but at least you'd have the document as a starting point.

    Regarding whether there is a discrepancy between her grades and her ability, do they know what her ability is? You mentioned that if she had a 130 IQ, they'd expect her to get As. Do they know what her IQ is? Do you? Sometimes standardized tests give you a number that they say is an indication of IQ, but it's not a real IQ score. If you want to know her IQ (if you don't already), you'll need to have her specifically tested for that, either through the school or privately. Otherwise I don't know how you know if she's working at her ability level, if that makes sense. She may be a whole lot smarter than she's getting credit for because ADHD can affect her learning and performance.

    Best of luck!

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    Default No I don't know her IQ I was just using the example

    they gave. It just way to show that they said they were only required to have her at grade level not working at her maximum potential whatever that might be.
    It only took a week to get this meeting planned. I know at their previous school it would have taken much longer.
    I just feel if I'm watching closely the minute they don't do what they have promised I can then request for this be done again.Since it seems there is not much that they are required to do for her but were open to doing things that might help .She is at grade level and there aren't many accomodations that they are required to do based on that it seemed that I would be getting the most that could be done for her at a school level.
    Am I reading the situation wrong here?

  4. #4
    Troy is offline INCIIDer - A Community Creator
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    Your dd sounds a lot like mine (though she doesn't crave being with the cool kids). Erratic performance is what prompted me to get her tested between fourth and fifth grade, and we did get a diagnosis of ADD. Once she started medication, her school performance really stabilized.

    Regarding the need for services for someone performing at grade level, I think it depends on what services are required, but the basic rule is that you are entitled to an "appropriate" education, not one that maximizes the needs of your individual particular child. It's hardly a bright line, but I was told by a private psychologist that my district would resist any effort to get special services for a child who was making Bs but could be making As. For one thing, that's hard to prove, as there are lots of people with high IQs who underachieve, and lots of people with average or slightly above average IQs who do very well.

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    zoeyz is offline INCIIDer - A Community Creator
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    Quote Originally Posted by susan in ca View Post
    they gave. It just way to show that they said they were only required to have her at grade level not working at her maximum potential whatever that might be.
    It only took a week to get this meeting planned. I know at their previous school it would have taken much longer.
    I just feel if I'm watching closely the minute they don't do what they have promised I can then request for this be done again.Since it seems there is not much that they are required to do for her but were open to doing things that might help .She is at grade level and there aren't many accomodations that they are required to do based on that it seemed that I would be getting the most that could be done for her at a school level.
    Am I reading the situation wrong here?
    I just went back to re-read justour2boys' previous post to you on this board because it sounded right the first time I read it. Did you check out the web site she posted? (wrightslaw) I'm no expert in this, but it seems to me that you are getting the brush off. There may be nothing else they are required to do for her if she doesn't have a 504; if she has a 504, you/she may have more rights. This is why they don't want her to have a 504 (or an IEP), because they are probably already overloaded and it would mean more work for them. If she had a 504, they might be required to do more than they are now. Hopefully someone here who is better versed in this than I am will chime in on this.

  6. #6
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    Default OK its time to put on the gloves!! The school has snowed you!

    OK Susan... I'm here to get you fired up!! This Mama Bear is going to arm you with information!!! The school has given you a song and dance and you bought it... hook line and sinker!

    First thing that struck me was the discussion about meds with the school. If this subject comes up again, tell them that is between you, your DD and HER MEDICAL PROVIDER!! If they persist, repeat that same statement. What meds your DD is taking or not taking is NOT the business of the school. Period!

    Second, it is not an issue of working to her "potential"... there has to be a documented difference between her "academic achievement and functional performance" (again, use this phrase and watch their reaction!!). And this difference can only be determine thru standardized testing... not just grades. So requesting a full and complete education evaluation is appropraite. They can not determine if services are warranted based soley on her IQ or grades or frankly just a statement that she won't qualify!!

    They talked you out of a 504 plan ... and you agreed??? No, No, No!!! They "say" they will do this or that... but bottom line, there is nothing holding them to what they "said" they would do and what you want them to do!! They smiled and patted you on the head and sent you on your way!! I say that to get you fired up into action.

    You need to write a letter requesting a 504 plan be written NOW. The progress report clearly documents the effect ADHD is having on her learning and they need to implement a 504 plan. Now... not later. Period, end of discussion. It is key to get a 504 plan in plan now so any changes or adjustments that will be needed for middle school can be worked out now and in the coming (5th grade) school year.

    This is going to be harsh, but here goes... do not trust the school. There is no reason for them to do anything for your DD since you have no 504 plan... you just have a "gentleman's agreement". And from experience, that means nothing! Next time they say "We'll do XYZ", you say "Great, put it in the 504 plan".

    Remember, the 504 plan is a contract the school must follow, it they don't it is a violation of your DD civil rights under ADA (Americans with Disability Act).

    So my recommendation is the same as I mentioned in my other post... get a 504 plan in place and request (in writing) for a full and complete educational evaluation! If you want help with a letter or a draft 504 plan, please ask. We are all here to help you advocate for your DD so she can be the best she can be with lots of tools to help her!

    Go Mama Bear Susan!! We've got your back!!

  7. #7
    BriNJ is offline INCIIDer - A Community Creator
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    I had started writing you a reply to your original post but it got lost This is what I wrote- well, sorta- that message was better.

    You dont just jump in and get an IEP. There is a process involved- and the first step is the concern meeting (usually remediation meeting). This meeting discusses what prompted concern and looks at what can be done within the classroom. This is usually a goal or two and then a checkpoint (ie: in 4wks). The goal there is to remediate with the child in thier environment. Things that fall in to this are- use of a checklist, longer time for tests or homework, rewards structure, changes in seating etc. These are common sense things that are realtively easy to implement and do not require any special training or effort. If this does not work, the process continues and the child is evaluated to determine what is going on and where the child needs assistance. At this point, either a 504 or IEP is considered. A 504 has a goal of making accomodations that allow the child to be in the classroom. It does not change the nature of the education itself/curriculum itself. A 504 does change the environment so that a child can learn. An IEP changes the education itself- could be the curriculum, teaching methods, assessment, assignments etc. An IEP can change the environment and provide services as well. A child with a disability may or may not recieve a 504 or IEP- it depends on how it affects thier ability to get an education. A child without a disability who struggles in school may also recieve a 504 or IEP. And in some cases, the disability is acknowledged to so significantly impair a child to the extent that the IEP process is began immediately. This isnt standard though- its much more likely that the process takes time and moves through the steps. The important fact is to prove that the child cannot learn appropriately the way that things are. Or that without the services, a child will not be able to either stay in the classroom or learn appropriately. To a school, social skills are not a requirement for learning until or unless they become a problem IN the classroom. So many school do nothing for social skills.

    As much as we parents do not like it, a school is NOT required to educate our children to thier potential- a school must only provide an accessible, appropriate education- not an optimal one. And that means many children could do better.

    It sounds like your school IS doing the right things, for right now. It does not mean that it wont change or that she wont struggle next year- 5th grade is a really hard year. Its good that they are going to watch her- and if she struggles, it sounds like they are open to working with you and her. That said, watch her yourself- you are much closer to her and more likely to see things changing. I'd setup checkpoints with the school- I think its great the principal will sit in on the conference but I'd ask at the end for another mtg in XXX wks to check in since your DD is at risk.

    In a perfect world, all kids would have an IEP and be able to learn in a way that makes sense, while they got whatever help they needed. Sadly, that is not OUR world. In our world, money and support is limited and many dont get what they need. I have one that falls through the cracks because he does so well and another that is at the remediation step in determing what she needs. We have a mtg to reassess in about 2wks, I think (gotta check the calendar). I think your best bet is to give it til the next conference and then talk to the teacher about HOW dd's ADHD shows up in the classroom and HOW it is affecting her learning. At that point, you can determine if its worth moving to the evaluation step- or to continuing to work within the classroom. This gives you a little time to talk to DD's psych, figure out what she needs (does she need accomodations or a different education). I'm a fan of working with the school- though I never trust them. Unfort. especially with the education budgets being cut so much, alienating teachers by demanding can really backfire- and though you can FORCE a school to do what a child needs, its hard, painful and long. Its much better to work with them, when they show any willingness to help. Use this time to get your information ready, what you really would want from them (both best and worse case scenarios) etc.

    We are at the first step in the process ourselves- its clear to us AND the school that DD's issues affect not just her, but the whole class. We are trying different interventions to see what works and if the needed accomodations are not standard classroom ones, then we'll go to a 504 to formalize them. Its a slow process but the fact that they are working with us, we do have our monthly meetings and that we share goals with the school give me a little hope. It took a long time for us to understand what was going on with DD, I cant expect them to figure out how to help her overnight.

    HTH!

  8. #8
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    Default Thanks everyone for the input

    Really appreciate you taking the time to give me such detailed input. You don't know how much it helps and even sometimes confuse me more. (LOL!)

    JustTour,
    I hear what you are saying but I'm not sure whay services they should be giving me. She is at grade level and not disruptive in class. Other than a one on one aid which I'm sure she would never be eligible for I don't know what they are required to do. I would like to see her consistantly get a"s because she has shown she can but if she gets a c average do they really have to provide services. Here I thought I did well but after reading your post I am feeling like wow they really snowed me.What do you think they should do? I am really new to this as you can tell. Do I really want to fight them when there is nothing to gain.

    BriNJ
    Your post is on target exactly for how I understand the situation to be. After reading Justtour's post I felt like Wow I really messed up. I see the situation like you do but see you are new to this also. I'm wondering if we are missing something here but also feel coming on so strong with the school will have a negative effect. And I won't get other things they might do because they don't have to. This is all so overwhelming. Wanting to be sure to do the right thing for our children and be an advocate yet not just reacting.

  9. #9
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    Default 504 vs IEP

    Susan,

    Just a few more ideas... when you use the word "services", that is an IEP. These are services the special education department must provide to a student that has specific goals. For example, my DS has a lisp so he has speech therapy (a service) 2 times a week with a detailed written goal for improvement. Or maybe another example is a student with OT services for handwriting with a goal for letter formation. Get the idea... IEP = Services!

    Now a 504 plan is for classroom/classwork/homework modifications to account for a student's disability. An obvious 504 plan example is that there must be wheelchair ramps due to a child walking disability.

    Now in your case, your DD has a ADHD disability... so the 504 plan would be written to specify what she needs in the classroom/classwork/homework to accomidate her disability. For example, a line item would say... test taking will occur in a quiet environment, free of distractions. Or even a line item to say she will have a copy of all text books at home (I did this with my DS).

    I do hear you when you say you do not want to enter into an adversarial relationship with the school. I've been there! To that I say, but would you hire a contractor with out a written contract as to the scope of work for the project? No, there is a contract as to what work is to be done. Same with the school!!

    Therefore, tell the school, a 504 plan is to make clear the responsibilies of the school to do XYZ to help DD be her best. Its that simple... you want a written record (504 plan) of ALL accomidations for your DD in the classroom/classwork/homework.

    This is a tough fight... no doubt about it. But if you start out with all information in writing, it will help you in the future... trust me!

    Hugs to You.. together we can help you ... help your DD!!

  10. #10
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    Default My Sample 504 plan

    OK to better understand a 504 plan... here is a link to my post of my draft 504 plan that I did for my school after my DS was dx with APD (Auditory Processing Disorder).

    As a side note, APD, "looks" alot like ADHD so the accomidation will ring true for your ADHD DD.

    http://www.inciid.org/forum/showthre...light=504+plan

    Again, this is a WRITTEN plan to ensure your DD has the accomidations she needs to be her best!!

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